- Edge sorting doesn't work for poker. There are lots of reasons but 1) As all players and the dealer handle the cards even if you turned a card it would not stay turned. 2) Cards dealt across the table spin and turn 3) Players get too few cards to turn compared to the rest also turned each hand.
- Ivey accepts that he used a technique during the game in question called ‘edge sorting’. This occurs where players use small imperfections on the back of playing cards to glean information about the face value, on which they then make corresponding betting decisions.
Edge Sorting at the Casino: Phil Ivey Beat Casinos for $21 Million Phil Ivey in 2009 – Image source: photo by flipchip / CC BY-SA via Wikimedia Commons Back in 2012, poker professional Phil Ivey beat both the Borgata and Crockford’s casinos to the collective tune of $21.6 million whilst playing baccarat.
There is a decision in the Borgata vs. Phil Ivey edge-sorting case (some background here), and it looks like the poker pro will be forfeiting $10 million in baccarat winnings after a US District Court judge found Ivey to be in breach of contract, guilty of marking cards.
While it looks like Ivey will have to repay the money, the ruling by Judge Noel Hillman was the classic case of good news/bad news for Phil Ivey in his battle with the New Jersey casino.
What happened to Ivey
First reported by Meadowlands Matters John Brennan, Judge Hillman dismissed the charge of fraud leveled against the poker superstar and a female accomplice by Borgata, but found the pair to be in breach of contract.
As John Brennan noted, the ruling is as complex as the method Ivey and his accomplice used to beat Borgata out of some $10 million over the course of four visits in 2012.
Per Brennan’s reporting of the judge’s opinion:
“Borgata’s contract-based claims are premised on the contention that when Ivey and Sun played Baccarat at Borgata, Borgata agreed to fulfill its obligations to provide a gaming experience in compliance with the New Jersey Casino Control Act (“CCA”), N.J.S.A. 5:12-1, et seq. (“CCA”), and Ivey and Sun agreed to play the game in compliance with the CCA. Because Borgata complied with the CCA, while Ivey and Sun did not, Ivey and Sun breached their agreement with Borgata.”
In the end it comes down to the definition of marked cards, and as Hillman wrote, “the fundamental purpose of legalized gambling.”
“Ivey and Sun’s view of what constitutes a “marked” card is too narrow,” Hillman wrote in her opinion. “By using cards they caused to be maneuvered in order to identify their value only to them, Ivey and Sun adjusted the odds of Baccarat in their favor. This is in complete contravention of the fundamental purpose of legalized gambling, as set forth by the CCA.”
Erstwhile lawyer turned poker player Cate Hall explained the decision thusly:
My ???? ex-lawyer take: this is what judges do when they want to decide a case 1 way, but don't want to create a rule for other situations(1/X) https://t.co/hkV7m0KabE
— Cate Hall (@catehall) October 21, 2016
3/X Contract law, by contrast, is 'private,' i.e. a matter of what the parties to the contract supposedly agreed to.
— Cate Hall (@catehall) October 21, 2016
5/X But the judge thinks 'allowing this seems bad, it feels like cheating.'
— Cate Hall (@catehall) October 21, 2016
7/X A way to address this w/o creating other problems is to say 'this is a matter of contract law' (private/not applicable to other cases).
— Cate Hall (@catehall) October 21, 2016
Ivey lost a similar case against Crockford’s in London Slot machine expected value. — he appealed the decision — and has maintained from the outset that the method he used, known as edge-sorting, is simply a form of an advantage gambling and doesn’t breach the rules of the game.
What happens next
As Hall noted on Twitter, it’s likely Ivey will have to repay the money.
@realcharder30 technically it has to go back to the trial court to determine damages, but very likely based on ruling Borgata gets all of it
— Cate Hall (@catehall) October 21, 2016
Poker Edge Sorting
In her ruling, Hillman wrote:
“Ivey and Sun’s motion for summary judgment on Borgata’s claims against them are granted on all claims except for Borgata’s claims for breach of contract. Borgata’s cross-motion for summary judgment in its favor is granted on its breach of contract claims, but denied as to all other claims. Within 20 days of the date of this Opinion, Borgata shall submit a brief setting forth its damages resulting from Ivey and Sun’s breach of contract, along with a proposed form of judgment. Ivey and Sun shall have 20 days thereafter to file a response to Borgata’s submission.”
Of course, it’s almost a certainty Ivey will appeal the ruling and the case will drag on for quite some time.
This advantage play technique has gotten a lot of attention in the media over the last few years following Phil Ivey’s edge sorting cases in Atlantic City and London casinos.
In short, edge sorting refers to a situation where the back of the card has pattern flaws, which opens the doors to identifying even face-down cards in specific cases; something that would put the player at a distinct advantage over the casino.
While there are many different techniques experienced gamblers use to try and get the upper hand, this particular one caught the attention of the public as it was used by one of poker’s best-known poker players.
Because of all the coverage, many people have developed an interest in this particular play. For some, it was just curiosity, while others were wondering if using edge sorting could maybe help them make some money as well. No matter what group you belong to, these are the top 3 facts you need to know about edge sorting.
1. Edge sorting requires a highly controlled environment
While articles you might read in the media might make it sound easy, you need a highly controlled environment to execute an edge sorting advantage play properly. This strategy involves the dealer agreeing to your requests to rotate the cards you pick, the casino only using an automatic shuffler, and pit bosses being okay with your strange demands.
Edge Sorting In Poker
If you were thinking about trying this out in your local casino, think again. No dealer or pit boss will go that much out of their way to make a player betting $20 or even $100 a hand happy. That kind of treatment is reserved only for high rollers who spend obscene amounts of money.
Even if the casino was particularly accommodating, you could only utilize the edge sorting technique if they’re actually using flawed decks. Not all card decks have defective patterns that will allow you to distinguish between favorable and non-favorable cards.
So, overall, this isn’t something you can just go and do whenever you like. It does require very special conditions, that are not likely to happen in most games.
2. Edge sorting is irrelevant in poker
Because Ivey is primarily known as a poker player and it was his personal notoriety that caused edge sorting to get so much attention, people might make a random connection between this technique and poker strategy. The truth is that edge sorting is entirely useless for poker players as there is no scenario where you could make it work.
The kind of controlled environment you need for edge sorting can only happen in games like baccarat, most likely if you’re the only one playing. At a poker table, even if the dealer were to accommodate your request to turn cards (which would never happen in a million years), it’d be impossible to pick up any useful information. Plus, you’re playing against other players as opposed to the house.
The moment those cards are dealt to the players, those edges will get messed up since they will be moving and rotating their cards, and there is no rule to prevent it. So, not even the best edge sorting mechanic out there could find any use for the technique at a poker table.
3. Edge sorting can get you in trouble
Unlike card counting, which is largely legal (even if frowned upon by the casinos), edge sorting seems to be regarded more as a form of cheating. Ivey lost both of his cases (against Crockfords and the Borgata), which indicates the law isn’t on the player’s side here.
While you’re unlikely to go to prison for it, the casino may refuse to pay you when it is all said and done – and you’ll have no recourse in the matter. They could let you play the entire night to see if you win or lose (as you can still lose even when edge sorting). If you win, they simply tell you that you used the advantage play technique that’s not allowed and send you on your way.
Since courts in the UK and the USA have already established edge sorting isn’t a valid technique and represents a form of behavior that’s outside of the rules, you won’t be able to get your money. So, it’s really a lose-lose proposition.
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